They are not discriminated against -- as they have the exact same right as every other student/parent -- to attend the school and obtain its benefits and bear its burdens -- or to stay out of the system. Do you think that home schooled students should be able to choose what aspects of school they prefer -- say take chemistry, but nothing else, or play in the band? By your logic, someone who has no children but still pays taxes should be able to come attend classes and make whatever use of the facilities he/she desires. What you want is not equality, but a special privilege for the home-schooled -- to have their cake and eat it too. Moreover, many of the academic requirements applied to athletes -- such as attaneding a full day of class that day -- have no analogue in the home-school world. Finally, your characterization of the relationship between schools and athletic programs is pure nonsense. The large majority of funds for any team come from the education budget. Sales and boosters merely pay for extras. This is no different than, for example, the French Honor society, regarding which my daughter is participating in a bake sale today. Perhaps the home-schooled should be able to join that as they please as well?

@ Eric...What do you care if kids come to school just to take AP classes or participate in the band - who's it hurting? Why does this have to be an all or nothing proposition? Don't you want to give students EVERY opportunity to educate and improve themselves? We are now paying for HS students to take classes from NOVA. By your logic the school system shouldn't be doing that for kids either. Let the kids play! For all you know home schoolers might find they really like public schools and decide to enroll full time.

I've read the blog with many concerned about the payment of taxes and fair share. I find it interesting as my mother who passed away in her 90s was more than happy to pay her taxes for 34 years (without her children in the school system). Her belief was in the need to educate our future. Albeit, she was an educator prior to her family and she also had continued to vote for the school board as well. That's what you do as a citizen. Maybe she was the exception but I, too, will have the last of mine graduating in June. My feeling will be the same. I support our school system and will continue to go to the sporting events, plays, concerts, etc. My sons didn't have to participate in some of the activities but I was still there supporting their friends and fellow students. As far as fair share - life is not fair and we all make choices. There are differences in attendance and practices between these two groups. As an example, my son couldn't play a full football game and had to sit out a part of it because the only time he could get his drivers license from the Fairfax County Court was appearing on the date they told him. He missed practice through 'no fault' of his own but those were the rules for the team. By the way,the teachers' union has no bearing on this at all. Many other have provided sufficient discussion towards this matter.

Louise, you are getting a bit off course by suggesting our students in Fairfax County are not motivated, on the contrary they are motivated. The issue being discussed is about home schooled students being allowed to participate in sport programs. From my work with FCPS I noticed highly motivated and engaged students in FCPS sports, theater and band programs and other activities just to name a few. These students are competitive and only the best student athletes make their school teams during try-outs.

Statistics have proven that those students involved in sports on average have a higher GPA, seem to handle time management skills better and are involved in their school communities. Home School children are involved in area sport leagues and have their own peer circle among other home schoolers. Although some believe it is only fair to allow home schoolers on area school teams, it is not. A CHOICE was made by their parents knowing full well what such a choice meant. There are great advantages to being home schooled but also disadvantages, similarly there are advantages with the public school system and disadvantages as well. As for taxes, in truth, only about 33% of the county's population has school aged children. Therefore that leaves 67% without children who pay into the system. The issue about taxation is moot.

The issue about taxes is definitely not moot. That is a ridiculous argument. By paying taxes for education and for education facilities, you should be able to use them. My kids went to public high school and played sports in high school, but were seldom in the same classes as the athletes they played with. You don't make a choice by home schooling that everything else in the county is off limits. Home schoolers can meet all of the academic requirements that public school students meet. They should be allowed to participate. The teacher's unions are the main reason that they are not allowed to participate (and note that I said the teacher's unions, not the teachers).

Elizabeth, exactly right. This tax argument is just non-nonsensical. We all pay taxes for things we will never use, or may not even support. That does not give us the right to use every single service the government provides. By this logic, since I have no school aged children I should be able to deduct that portion of my taxes that go to the public schools.

And yes, when parents decide to home school their students they forfeit their right to participate in programs the public school provides for its students.

A parent most certainly does make a choice to home school, just as a parent would make a choice for their child to attend a private school, it is a choice. As far as athletes not matriculating with other students, I have never seen that take place in Fairfax County. Athletes take part in AP, IB, Honors and all types of classes with all types of students.---Carl, I know the schools quite well and you are off base on that one, pardon the pun.

Our school faciltiies are used by independent sport leagues throughout the county. School facilities are open during the evening hours to allow sport leagues to use gyms and fields which are maitained via public dollars.

By the way last I saw Virginia was a right to work state, we do not have teacher unions. The Patch has mistakenly reported the local teacher associations as unions in their education reporting.

I didn't say that they didn't matriculate with other students. I said that they were often not in their classes, and they did not know each other outside of sports. If you misinterpreted that, I am sorry I did not state it more clearly.

Well, to be technical, it's their parents' choice. However, I agree. These families have determined that, on balance, their student is best served by homeschooling, with all that entails, rather than public schooling, with its package of pros and cons.

Chuck, nobody is trying to say that a school should be an exclusive club. However, a school team should be just that - a team for the kids of that school. If a homeschooled child wants access to that team, they are perfectly welcome to become a student at that school. Why should a school team have players on it that deliberately chose NOT to go to that school? The fact that tax dollars are being used means nothing. My tax dollars are going to support many endeavors that my child may never be a part of. Virginia taxes help support our state universities, and there is no guarantee that my child will ever be selected to attend those schools. I pay for many social services that I will never use. Life is full of choices - if you make the choice to not put your child in a public school, then you can't later cry about losing benefits that you are missing because your child doesn't attend a public school. There are plenty of club teams, sports leagues, and other opportunities for sports that are available outside of the high school venue.
They may not be exactly the same, but there are opportunities. People who are deciding whether to home school or not should take sports into consideration, if that is a big part of what they want for their kids. If they end up deciding that it is better to homeschool, then that is their choice and they shouldn't complain.

The problem is, there's no actual mechanism for enforcement of those standards.

Existing home-schoolers probably are doing a good job monitoring academic progress. The risk (and it's real, based on evidence) is that parents of struggling students will pull their kids out and home-school as an "end run" around the eligibility requirements.

The legislation does, indeed, propose that home-schooled children need to show the same progress, and meet the same disciplinary code, as public-schooled children. But it's simply not sufficient to take their parents' word for it, when public-school children are held accountable by a neutral third party instead.

Chuck, the Virginia Dept. of Education has pointed out a serious gap (see the Washington Post's article on this here http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/thousands-of-virginia-students-arent-required-to-get-an-education/2012/09/10/144fb9f0-fb54-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_story.html). More and more families that home-school are taking the added step to assume full control of their children's education, which exempts them from reporting. According to the state, there's been an increase of more than 50% of these types of arrangements in the past decade.

In most sports, there is a higher level of play available through community groups than through high schools. There are a few exceptions, but claiming that school boards have a monopoly on athletic services is farcical at best.

I know that, at least in the case of soccer, they do. I was passing through South Run Rec Center a few years ago and stumbled upon the state home-schooled high school soccer semifinals. Home schoolers (from not just in Fairfax County) availing themselves of the fruits of their (parents) taxes: namely, the fields. It takes some doing, but it's not impossible.

To Carelnn:
Scouting is heavy durring AAU games, soccer games, baseball, Lax. and other matches and games. If an athlete is good he/she will be seen and if he/she is truly talented don't you think the parent would do all possible to advocate for their athlete if he or she is scholarship potential? Kids with real potential and are of HS age are playing in top leagues, not rec. leagues. A major difference,

Really...well I no longer have any kids in school...does that mean I can deduct from my taxes that portion used to pay for the public school system?

Actually a very select few of our citizenry ever sees the inside of a basic training military base or ever dons the uniform of our great nation. Only the best serve in uniform. It is not a right, but a privilege to serve in the military. Many unqualified candidates get turned away. An even smaller minority of the qualified candidates that successfully survive basic training will ever see the inside of an aircraft cockpit. However, those that do serve and fly are required to protect everyone. So, no you cannot demand that they teach you to fly one just because you pay taxes. You can only demand that they fulfill their mission of protecting the Commonwealth and nation. The home schooled student, who is a superior athlete, should rightfully be given the opportunity to "bump" your FCPS in-school student athlete off the team. You should want what is best for your FCPS team - in-school or home-schooled student should be welcomed equally. Only the best should be on the team. Just like only the best serve in uniform, and an even higher caliber of these "best" citizens get to fly those magnificent fighter jets. The home-schooled student's parents paid full freight just like all the other taxpayers for the overbuilt FCPS facilities and overpaid bureaucracy. It is always interesting to read the justifications for discrimination - be it in Massive Resistance Virginia of the 1950s - 1960s, or the modern day 21st Century discrimination against home-schooled student-athletes.

Gleb Taran - I disagree that we should want what is best for the FCPS team, pushing for team supremacy rather than individual accomplishment.

That said, each HS team is just that -- a team affiliated with a high school. A student who is NOT affiliated with that high school has about as much right to play on its teams as do I - an overweight, older, fat woman - since I pay taxes too. As I've said before, parents make a choice based on careful consideration of the pros and cons of each. Ineligibility to play on a team is part of that decision.

T. Allshire - In a team sport, (football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, hockey), your mission objective is to do what is best for the team rather for the self. You are expected to subsume your individualism in favor of what is best for the collective of the team. Later in life this translates into service in the military, or other organizations where you are part of a much bigger effort (bigger than the self) to successfully overcome the enemy, the opposition, the competition. The "team" is the "sine qua non" for your participation. Individual sports (tennis, golf, speed skating) are venues for individual accomplishment. The public high school and team is owned by the community that pays the taxes to provide the facilities. If you want to be exclusionary, then you can organize a private school and field teams that compete in the universe of other private - independent schools. There is nothing wrong with that either. That is also a very good alternative venue for developing talent as in the case of Russel Wilson by way of Collegiate School, North Carolina State, Wisconsin, Seattle. Your so called "unaffiliated" student who lives in the community where his parents pay the taxes for the facilities has every right to participate and expect to be accepted. Sorry! That is only fair! FCPS can greatly expand the universe of candidates for the team and individual sports by being inclusive and accepting the home-schooled or independent athlete. This is win-win for everyone!

That is weak! I would expect you could develop a better argument than parroting what was propounded by Saslaw. Less than 1% of citizenry actually serve in the military. Military service is a privilege, not an inherent right. Flying fighter jets just because you pay for them is nonsensical and not an satisfactory example comparable to excluding home schooled students from public school services. Your and Saslaw's example fails the logic test! All students between certain ages are to be educated. That is the law! All citizens, meeting age and citizenship requirements, are allowed to vote. That is the law! You would not deign to penalize, or punish a citizen for not voting, for opting out of the franchise. That is his right! Shame on you for wanting to punish a student, and by extension the parents, for opting out of the public school system. They have an inherent right to participate or not to participate. Since the parents pay for the public school system they are also entitled to use that system how they see fit. Not how Saslaw and you attempt to define how they can use the system. The public school system is owned by the community at large, not the elected politicians or the professional bureaucrats.

Virginia does not have teacher's unions.

I pay taxes but have no kids left of school age. Should I then get a refund because I cannot use that service?

Yes there are teachers unions in VA

Joe, there are unions, but no agency fee and no collective bargaining rights. A teachers' union in VA is in name only, and on about the same level as any other professional organization: no power and no rights. Just a group of teachers.

My kids are out of school too and I pay my taxes so what? What is your argument for the kids NOT participating? Who is it hurting if they participate? I loved playing sports in HS and 99% of the kids playing sports will not go on to play at the intercollegiate level. It's about kids having fun and competing - why would you not want to give that opportunity to every kid in our county?

By attending public school!

Let the kids play! Actually if the students are residents and their parents paid the taxes they do meet the requirements and are entitled to pick and choose which FCPS services they would like to use or participate in - athletics, academics or clubs. Mandatory attendance at public school to participate in school sports is the equivalent of being required to pay poll taxes or passing a test in order to vote. Why are anti-home schooling types afraid of competition? Mandatory public school attendance is not the be-all, end-all of participatory citizenship. Competition is good! Maybe that superior home-schooled athlete will bump your less motivated in-school athlete from the team? Why protect the less motivated, the less disciplined? Maybe that home-schooled scholar-athlete represents a higher caliber of discipline, dedication, hard work, athletic talent? This athlete would be a good addition and role model for any team! Whats not to like? FCPS athletics can only benefit from this wider universe of potential athletes. Lets win some championships! Stop the shameful discrimination against home-schooled athletes! Let every athlete earn a place on the team through competition - home-schooled or public schooled? It is about the children. Right? Or is is just about FCPS enrolled students and the others don't count? Let them earn and take their place on the athletic fields their parents paid for!

Of course student-athletes in public school are motivated - as Elizabeth pointed out above, they have many practices and games, and also have to attend class and get their homework done. They have to be very organized!

However, organization and discipline can't completely offset some disadvantages of attending FCPS high schools. For example, FCPS public high school students wake up around 6 am to get to school by 7:15 am. In contrast, homeschooled students can sleep until 8 am, which helps on the playing fields.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/conditioning/a/aa062800a.htm

With more sleep - and extra time created by covering the state-required academic material more efficiently - a motivated homeschooled student can do a lot. The extra time can be used to practice a musical instrument, work on a science fair project, and/or work out and hone athletic skills.

One of my daughters was a high school team captain for 6 seasons. She and her classmates were athletically talented and very motivated. But compared to some of the state's fastest runners, they were sleep-deprived and had less time to practice. That put them at a disadvantage.

That's one illustration of why FCPS should look at ways to make the public schools more user-friendly. If it did, perhaps fewer students would choose to be homeschooled. And, perhaps there also would be fewer concerns about allowing home-schooled students to participate in school activities.

And if a private high school doesn't have a "enter sport here" team, should we permit those students to play for the local public high school? Isn't it the same argument? The parents chose the method of education.

Who attends a particular school is determined by school boundaries, not spirit, not anything else. When the county changes the boundaries (as they did in my area) you belong to a different school district. Participation in school teams is also determined by the boundaries of school districts. Home schoolers shoujld be allowed to play in their school district. That is fairness.

But the VHSL makes an exception for kids attending non-VHSL public schools, so the very group that enforces this ban has a rule that allows kids to play for a school they don't attend. See my comment above. Why they would allow certain non-students to play but not others is hypocritical and reflects, in my view, a bias against homeschoolers and an effort to marginalize the movement.

Carl, you are missing my point. I don't care a fig about school boundaries. Those boundaries are set, and you play for whichever school you belong to. I understand that those boundaries are changed as needed by the school system, meaning that a student might end up at a different school and playing for a different team. But are you trying to imply that if a student gets switched to a different school via a boundary chang, or if a younger sibling ends up at a different school than an older sibling, that those kids will not be willing to play for, cheer on, or root for their new team??? My point has nothing to do with what school you are at - it has everything to do with the fact that when you attend a school, you care about your team, you root for your team, and you are invested with a sense of school community and school spirit. Adding in kids who deliberately chose not to attend that school dilutes that atmosphere. In my opinion, the kids who attend a school should be the ones to play for it, period. It's already hard enough to make it onto most high school teams. Those precious few spots should go to students who actually belong to that school. If homeschoolers want so badly for their kids to play for a high school team, they are more than welcome to send their kids to that school.

Thank you, Elizabeth, you are stating the same thing that I am trying to say. We don't have anything against homeschooling. I think it's a great thing, if that is what works for you, and is what your child needs. I also think that when you make that CHOICE, you have hopefully taken into account all of the consequences of your decision. If you choose for your child to not be a part of the school community, then you should understand that your child will also not be a part of everything that community entails, including sports. Even after reading all of these arguments, I still firmly feel that school sports teams should consist of students from that school.

Wow. You're saying home schooled kids aren't even part of their community and should feel no security, trust, loiyalty and pride. What a great attitude. Maybe you should petition to build a giant barbed wire fence around your school to make sure none of those unclean home-schoolers sneak in to play football.

It is about tolerance!
It is about multi-culturalism!
It is about diversity!
It is about accepting those different than you!
You cannot discard those students who are being home schooled like they are second class citizens.
When their parents pay for it, they are entitled to it however they see fit!
They can choose to use it all.
They can choose to use not of it.
They can pick and choose whatever elements theyt want for their kids.
That is the American way.
When did we forget about that!

Mozart, nicely stated however as much as Ms. Epstein has been an advocate for education many of us feel she has advocated for only a certain type of studen and her views do not represent the majority of parents in the county. It is interesting to note that it is the same people always finding fault with the system. Out of over 150,00 parents who have chldren in the system we hear from a handful with personal special interests, if you view the School Board's public comment time it is the same people every week, quite disappointing.

Public schools address the "greater" public and unfortunately the many voices of parents are not being heard because most of us work and are picking up children as well as attending to them. We don't have time for special interests we want our children to succed, we choose community public schools and do so knowing they will have their ups and downs, they will learn it is not always about "them" in life and it takes hard work to succeed at something.

I would venture Ms. Epstein's children did quite well in school and went on to well known universities. So that being said, didn't the school system do well by her children? Looking at the bottom line isn;t that what it is about, to move on towards a successful life's path? Now back to the issue of .....

Again, I disagree. High school teams are exactly that - teams composed of the kids that attend that high school. I'm not saying that homeschooled kids are different than any other kids. I am saying that since they don't attend their local high school, they have no place on that school's team. The choices that we make can sometimes have unpleasant consequences, but if it means enough to people to keep their kids out of school, then they need to suck it up and accept the fact that means their kids will not be able to play on the local high school team. I don't believe that people should be allowed to pick and choose what they like best. Maybe my child is not good enough to make it onto her school's team, but would be good enough to play for a neighboring high school. However, the academics are better at her own school. Do I lobby for her to continue taking classes at her school, and also play for the neighboring high school's team? It seems to me that is what you are suggesting, and I don't accept that as a viable option.

Jody, my absurd example was only meant to show that other people might like to be able to combine things to suit their own best interests - in my area, our public high school is not as strong in some areas as I'd like, and I'd love to be able to choose and pick things to match my child's best interests, but I just can't do that. Seems to me that homeschoolers would also like the best of both worlds - teach their kids the way they see fit, but also give them the benefits of things they can't do at home. It just doesn't work that way. Nothing is designed to punish you for doing what you think best for your child, but when you made your choice, you have to abide by the consequences. Nothing you say will make me change my mind that a high school team should be composed of kids that actually attend that school.

Well, Jody, you have to realize that your version of "fair", and other peoples' may be different. Is it "fair" that a kid who has been going to his public high school for years and has been working hard to make their team loses his spot to someone who doesn't even go to his school? Again, different visions, different ideas of what is fair and what is not. Just because you aren't getting your way doesn't mean that those who disagree with you are trying to "sock it to homeschool parents". Some of us just want to see the kids who actually attend our schools get the chance to play. So do try to see it from a standpoint other than "people who don't agree with me are out to get me". You can get what your tax money is paying for if you decide to send your kids to public school. If you don't like public schools, then don't attend, but don't complain about not getting your money's worth.

Well said Sandra. Thank you.

Jody, according to you, it seems that anyone disagreeing with you, in any way, shape or form, is displaying animosity. I have always said that I respect your decision to homeschool. I just do not agree with your views on allowing homeschoolers to participate in high school sports. Apparently since I fail to fall in with you on this, I am displaying animosity. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. That does not mean you have to be rude about it. I find your tone of writing to be very hostile. Those of us who disagree with you have a right to our own opinions.

What a strange post. This isn't about me and I wasn't rude. Obviously there is more than one point of view. I sensed animosity when you used the phrase "suck it up" and complained about increased competition and lack of spirit. I sense that people on your side of the argument think people who home school are somehow traitors and not good community members or else they would happily send their kids to public school. Just my opinion, nothing hostile about it.

Jody,
It isn't their high school, their high school is with other home schooler friends and families. They do not matriculate in these public high schools, they do not help support these schools through PTSAs or PTOs. They do not fund raise for these schools, they and their parents do not volunteer in these schools. It is not their school in terms of attendance, etc. To be blunt Jody you are out of the ballpark on this one.

Home schoolers can attend club leagues like all other children. You make blanket statements and your animosity is chilling if someone disagrees with you.

It is their local high school. They just don't attend it. Why should parents have to choose educating their children at home or them being able to participate on a sports team. How can a parent even begin to know what sport their child will want to play when they're older. Why the "us" vs. "them" attitude? Of course these kids will participate in fund-raising for their team! Not all sports have club leagues available. I find your desire to exclude chilling.

Jody, your statement says it all - "It is their local high school. They just don't attend it." The fact that they don't attend their local school means they aren't a part of that high school. They may live in the school boundaries, but by choice they aren't a part of the school community. I still think the kids that are a part of that school are the ones that should play on the teams. I just don't think it is fair for kids who don't attend that school to take a spot from someone who does. I understand that you don't agree with this, but there's no reason to say that those who are against your position are against you or your beliefs personally. It's all a matter of which viewpoint you are looking from.

Or you could face the realization that sports teams are for the public good of our children, publicly supported, and operate out of public schools for convenience. Would it make people feel any better to formally announce that education and sports are two separate things?

I'm wondering the same things COD. We desperately need a voucher system and more choices for our kids. I applaud parents who make the sacrifice to not work and home school their children because they believe it's the best choice for them. I think Ffx. County's total costs, including overhead, works out to 13K per child. Think of the possibilities.

Home schoolers excluded the CHOICE to attend public schools.

Elizabeth, please take another look at what you posted. "Home schoolers excluded the CHOICE to attend public schools." Really?

I concur! We need to expand our consciousness, our enlightenment, our horizons, and our acceptance of those not marching in lock-step with FCPS. Many of us pay for FCPS through our taxes. Jody owns the ball park and the school because she pays for it, but is being closed out. How is that fair? Her kids deserve the access to whatever services or activities she feels would help advance their interests. The school does not belong solely to the ones who attend it or who have kids in it or who work on the PTA or who are in the booster clubs. It actually belongs to the ones who pay for it, which is a much larger community. It is time to change the status quo. It is always fascinating to read the justifications for various forms of discrimination and rationalization for intolerance and elitist exclusion. I enjoy re-reading the Richmond Times-Dispatch editorials and news accounts from the floor of the Virginia House of Delegates and Senate from the 1950s justifying Massive Resistance and other forms of discrimination. All those comments against opening up FCPS academics, facilities, services, athletics to the home-schooling universe could have stepped out of the pages 1950s Richmond Times-Dispatch. The irony is beautiful, but unfortunately lost on those arguing to preserve the rarified FCPS hallways and athletic fields only for the students who are physically present throughout the day!

RJP says; "Last but not least I think people who home school are weird. Their kids are usually socially awkward as well. However they still deserve the opportunity to play sports at their local school, because its on their best interest."

That statement ranks right up there with any other discriminatory generalization that has been used against Blacks, Jews, Gays and Irish. I'm sorry if I have left any races or nationalities out.

That is dark! Who are you to define "weird" or "socially awkward"? What standard of assessment are you using? Did you learn that in FCPS? An "absolute moron" and "absolute idiot"? You want to divorce rational decision making from how you pay for it and get the best bang for the buck and how the system should be used to advance education for everyone? When you cannot defend your position or advance a coherent argument, casting insults and aspersions is a safe route!

So then where does it all end? Show up and play a sport this year. Then next year some parents will clamor for their kids to be allowed into the public high school's AP chemistry class because the parents can't teach that to the kids and "they need it to get into college." Then parents will say, "Let my child into the public high school drama class because she wants to apply to colleges for drama school." And eventually it will all snowball until home-schooling parents are cherry-picking not just the sports they want for their kids but the academic classes, extracurriculars and other things that they can't teach their kids themselves or via a homeschooling network, or they'll insist their kids be allowed into classes that improve the kids' abiltiy to get into certain colleges. The "Tebow bill' is about football, really, but it is the thin end of the wedge and would open the door to these parents pressing for their kids to pick and choose what they like from public schools. School is not a menu from which they can order what they like. If the Tebow bill ever passes it's going to create a mess for academics, not just sports, down the road. And don't argue, "But that's not happening in other states that do it already." Just wait.